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Every episode
Scaling Laws
30 episodes
Founders & Founders: Matthew Schwartz of Virgo
Aug 14, 2026 · 42 min
Matthew Schwartz, founder of Virgo, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss how AI is beginning to reshape gastroenterology. Virgo’s model is trained on one of the largest collections of endoscopy procedure videos ever assembled, opening new possibilities for earlier diagnosis, personalized treatment of diseases like inflammatory bowel disease, and faster clinical research. The duo also examine how…
Daniel Kokotajlo on AI 2040: Plan A
Aug 11, 2026 · 1 hr 3 min
Daniel Kokotajlo, former OpenAI researcher and executive director of the AI Futures Project, joins Kevin Frazier, Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at Texas Law and Senior Editor at Lawfare, to detail his policy recommendation–AI 2040: Plan A. It’s a thorough analysis of a policy pathway to delaying superintelligence, which Daniel and his co-authors think is necessary to ensure that the disruptive effects of highly-capable AI systems do not outweigh the benefits. Kevin asks Dan…
DZ Kalman on the Role of Faith in AI Policy
Aug 4, 2026 · 50 min
DZ Kalman, fellow at the Berkman Klein Center, research fellow at the Shalom Hartman Institute, senior advisor at Sinai & Synapses, and host of Belief in the Future, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to explore what religious traditions can teach AI governance. DZ and Kevin discuss religious responses to AI, Jewish technoculture, kosher supervision as a model for AI certification, and the limits of AI use in…
Founders & Founders: Laura Davis of USLege
Jul 31, 2026 · 42 min
Laura Davis, founder of USLege, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to dive into how USLege is leveraging AI to transform the way professionals monitor and respond to government activity. USLege’s platform aims to be the answer to the prayers of many policy stakeholders. It captures and analyzes legislative hearings, regulatory discussions, and committee proceedings as they happen, surfacing policy signals…
Google's Kent Walker on Regulating Frontier AI
Jul 28, 2026 · 27 min
Kent Walker, President of Global Affairs at Google and Alphabet, joins Kevin to discuss Google's proposal for a two-pronged approach to AI governance: a Frontier AI Regulatory Organization, which like FINRA, would operate as an independent, industry-based governance body overseen by a federal agency and the application of existing laws to widely-deployed, less capable systems. The two also discuss the timing behind this proposal and its relevance in light of the recent Hugging Face / OpenAI inci…
The Politics and Politicking of AI with Assemblymember Alex Bores
Jul 24, 2026 · 51 min
Assemblymember Alex Bores ran for Congress on a platform that in many ways centered on AI policy. He therefore drew considerable support as well as substantial opposition from interest groups across the country. Though Bores lost in the Democratic primary, his experience is worth exploring in detail. Alan and Kevin dive in with some key questions: what did he hear from voters on AI? are everyday New Yorkers worried about benchmarks being saturated? how did the millions of dollars coming into the…
Courtney Cox on AI in Adjudication [live from the Institute of Law & AI's Workshop on Law-Following AI]
Jul 21, 2026 · 42 min
Courtney Cox, Associate Professor of Law at Fordham Law School, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss her forthcoming article, Hardwiring Hercules?. It’s a great read that builds on Dworkin’s idea of a perfect adjudicator, Hercules. Courtney argues that the debate over a “right to a human decision” has missed a central problem: normative uncertainty. Machines may struggle to explain their decisions, b…
Founders & Founders: Nils Tracy of Authorship
Jul 17, 2026 · 48 min
Nils Tracy, founder of Authorship, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to detail the challenges and solutions to deploying AI in highly sensitive contexts. Authorship enables users to map their AI policies to myriad use cases--from on-device AI tools to those connected to the cloud. It's a direct effort to tackle concerns that as AI use cases become more frequent and varied deployers may struggle to ensure…
New paths to social mobility with Joe Seddon
Jul 14, 2026 · 49 min
Joe Seddon, Founder and CEO of Zero Gravity, joins Kevin Frazier, director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a senior fellow at the Abundance Institute, to discuss AI, social mobility, higher education, and the future of opportunity. Zero Gravity is a UK-based platform that helps launch students from low-opportunity backgrounds into leading universities and prosperous careers. The conversation explores whether AI can scale the kinds of mento…
Founders & Founders: Adi Tantravahi of Cofactor
Jul 10, 2026 · 46 min
Adi Tantravahi, founder of Cofactor, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to talk about how AI can help cut through the administrative red tape that underlies and, in many ways, undermines the modern healthcare system. Cofactor’s AI platform focuses on denial management—an area where hospitals routinely lose revenue because insurance claims go unchallenged due to staffing constraints. Kevin and Adi unpack t…
All Things Data Centers with Andy Masley
Jul 7, 2026 · 55 min
Andy Masley joins Kevin Frazier, director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a senior editor at Lawfare, and Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare and associate professor at Minnesota Law, to unpack the increasingly contentious issues related to data centers. They discuss Andy’s efforts to challenge what he sees as misleading claims about data center water use, land use, electricity rates, and local community impacts. Be sure to check…
Founders & Founders: Kal Clark of Zauron Labs
Jul 3, 2026 · 50 min
Kal Clark, co-founder of Zauron Labs, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to explain how AI is already reducing diagnostic errors in radiology. Kal details how Zauron’s AI system functions as a second-look safety layer, reviewing imaging exams for high-impact missed findings before those results translate into patient outcomes. Kal and Kevin then discuss the scale of diagnostic error in modern healthcare,…
Lawfare Daily: 'The Reverse Centaur's Guide to Life After AI’—A Conversation with Cory Doctorow
Jun 30, 2026 · 57 min
Alan Rozenshtein, associate professor of law at the University of Minnesota and research director at Lawfare, and Kate Klonick, associate professor of law at St. John's University School of Law and a senior editor at Lawfare, spoke with science fiction novelist and technology journalist Cory Doctorow about about his new book, The Reverse Centaur's Guide to Life After AI, which argues that AI is being deployed to turn workers into "reverse centaurs" who serve machines rather than direct them, and…
Founders & Founders: Dhruv Diddi of Solo Tech
Jun 26, 2026 · 48 min
Dhruv Diddi, founder of Solo Tech, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the emerging frontier of Physical AI. Solo Tech builds infrastructure that allows developers to deploy AI models directly onto robots and edge devices rather than relying on cloud-based computation. In other words, think about allowing AI systems to operate in remote areas that have traditionally struggled to leverage the lat…
"The God Test": AI as Cosmic Reckoning, with Robert Wright
Jun 23, 2026 · 53 min
Alan Rozenshtein, Research Director at Lawfare, spoke with Robert Wright—author of Nonzero, The Moral Animal, The Evolution of God, and Why Buddhism Is True, and the writer behind the NonZero Newsletter and podcast—about his new book, The God Test: Artificial Intelligence and Our Coming Cosmic Reckoning, which argues that AI is an evolutionary threshold on the scale of the entire history of life, that we are collectively failing to grasp its magnitude, and that rising to the challenge will requi…
Justified Posteriors join Scaling Laws: Two economists and two lawyers walk into a podcast studio
Jun 19, 2026 · 1 hr 17 min
In this cross-pod episode, Alan and Kevin join Seth Benzell and Andrey Fradkin of Justified Posteriors to explore a big question: what should AI be for? The conversation begins with Pope Leo XIV’s recent encyclical. The group discusses how economists should think about the Church’s role in AI debates, what counts as an AI-related market failure, whether moral and religious institutions can help address social harms, and whether such interventions risk crowding out private action or local experim…
Explain to Shane (Tews) and Scaling Laws
Jun 16, 2026 · 48 min
Shane Tews, host of Explain to Shane and nonresident senior fellow at AEI, joins Kevin Frazier, director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a senior fellow at the Abundance Institute, for a cross-post conversation about the AI and cyber executive order, workforce disruption, and the future of education. They also share their respective research agendas for the summer. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Lawyering on the Frontier with Janel Thamkul
Jun 12, 2026 · 50 min
Janel Thamkul, former frontier counsel team member at Anthropic, joins Kevin Frazier to discuss what it means to practice law at the frontier of AI. This episode starts with a review of Janel’s fascinating and varied background. Next, she walks through her initial exploration of a career in art before eventually pivoting to the law based on some very formative experiences. Kevin and Janel then investigate some of the most pressing and open questions related to transformative AI. Hosted on Acast.…
Radical Optionality: Governing Transformative AI, with Christoph Winter and Charlie Bullock
Jun 9, 2026 · 43 min
Alan Rozenshtein, Research Director at Lawfare and Visiting Senior Fellow at the Institute for Law & AI (LawAI), spoke with Christoph Winter, LawAI Founding Director and Assistant Professor of Law and AI at the University of Cambridge, and LawAI Senior Research Fellow Charlie Bullock, about their new paper "Radical Optionality: Governing Transformative AI Under Uncertainty," which argues that, given the possibility of transformative AI within the next decade and deep uncertainty about its capabi…
Tom Davidson on the Importance of AI Character
Jun 5, 2026 · 52 min
Tom Davidson joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss AI timelines, explosive economic growth, and the increasingly urgent debate over “AI character” — the behavioral traits and decision-making tendencies embedded into advanced AI systems. Drawing on Davidson’s recent paper, “The Importance of AI Character,” which he co-authored with Will MacAskill, their conversation explores how the character of future…
Governing the Frontier with Owen Larter of Google DeepMind
Jun 2, 2026 · 46 min
Owen Larter, Senior Director and Head of Frontier Policy and Public Affairs at Google DeepMind, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to provide an inside look at how DeepMind approaches frontier governance. The conversation moves beyond the familiar U.S.-EU-China framing of AI policy to examine international coordination after the recent U.S.-China summit, Google DeepMind’s national AI partnerships, the r…
Inside the Fight to Detect and Govern Synthetic Abuse with Melissa Hutchins of Certifi AI
May 29, 2026 · 1 hr 2 min
Melissa Hutchins, founder and CEO of Certifi AI, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the rise of deepfakes, non-consensual sexually explicit imagery, and the growing policy fight over AI-generated harms online. Drawing from both her professional work and her personal experience as a victim of cyberstalking, Melissa explains how synthetic media is changing the threat landscape for individuals, platfo…
HAGS (with AI): How AI Tools Are Shaping Education with Adeel Khan and Ryan Trattner
May 26, 2026 · 50 min
Adeel Khan of MagicSchool AI and Ryan Trattner of StudyFetch join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the rapid integration of artificial intelligence into education. The conversation explores how AI tools are being used by both teachers and students, from automating lesson planning to providing personalized tutoring and study support. The group examines claims about improved learning outcomes and time savi…
The Politics of Data Centers with VA Delegate John McAuliff
May 22, 2026 · 48 min
John McAuliff, a Delegate in the Viriginia House of Delegates, joins Kevin Frazier, Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program and a Senior Fellow with the Abundance Institute, to discuss the ongoing debates around data centers at the state level. John was one of the first candidates to recognize data centers as a key issue. He had to convince his polling team to put the issue on early surveys. Of course, they soon realized he was on to something. In his first legisatlive session as a…
Let's Do the Science! Talking Algorithms with Cathy O'Neill
May 19, 2026 · 49 min
Cathy O’Neil, CEO of ORCAA and author of Weapons of Math Destruction and The Shame Machine, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and Senior Editor at Lawfare, to explore the promises and limits of algorithmic auditing. The conversation examines what audits actually do in practice, how organizations measure and mitigate bias, and why context—not just code—determines whether an AI system causes harm. O’Neil explains why auditing…
Escaping One-Size-Fits-All AI Policy with Sean Perryman
May 15, 2026 · 41 min
Sean Perryman, AI policy lead at Uber and lecturer on AI Governance and Ethics at Vanderbilt Law School, joins Kevin Frazier, the Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, to explore the rapidly evolving debate over algorithmic pricing and AI governance. The conversation begins with the rise of state-level efforts to regulate algorithmic pricing to unpack what these systems are actually doing and why the…
Forecasting AI's Impact on the Economy with Deger Turan, CEO of Metaculus
May 12, 2026 · 52 min
Deger Turan, CEO of Metaculus, joins Kevin Frazier to unpack new forecasts on how AI could reshape the labor market over the next decade. The conversation centers on a striking divergence between Metaculus forecasts and projections from institutions like the Bureau of Labor Statistics—raising fundamental questions about whether existing tools for understanding the economy can keep pace with rapid technological change. Deger walks through key findings from the Labor Automation Forecasti…
Rapid Response: An "FDA for AI" at the White House?, with Dean Ball
May 8, 2026 · 33 min
Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and Senior Editor at Lawfare, spoke with Dean Ball, Senior Fellow at the Foundation for American Innovation and former Senior Policy Advisor for AI at the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, about the Trump administration's reported plans to vet frontier AI models before public relea…
Lawfare Daily: Why AI Won’t Revolutionize Law (At Least Not Yet), with Arvind Narayanan and Justin Curl
May 5, 2026 · 44 min
Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, speaks with Justin Curl, a third-year J.D. candidate at Harvard Law School, and Arvind Narayanan, professor of computer science at Princeton University and director of the Center for Information Technology Policy, about their new Lawfare research report, “AI Won't Automatically Make Legal Services Cheaper,” co-authored with Princeton Ph.D. candidate Sayash Kapoor. The report argues that despite AI's impressive capabilities, structura…
An EU-perspective on America’s Approach to AI with Marietje Schaake
May 1, 2026 · 45 min
In this episode of Scaling Laws, Kate Klonick, Associate Professor of Law at St. John’s University and a fellow at the Brookings Institution, and Kevin Frazier, Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a senior fellow at the Abundance Institute, are joined by Marietje Schaake, the International Policy Director at Stanford University’s Cyber Policy Center and author of The Tech Coup: How to Save Democracy from Silicon Valley. A former Member…
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